Bruno Heller.
London-born producer/writer Bruno Heller is the son of Lukas Heller, a successful German screenwriter and winner of an Edger Award winner for Best Motion Picture for 1964's Hush…Hush, Sweet Charlotte, while his mother Caroline, an English Quaker, played a key role in the Labour Party’s “Save London Transport Campaign.” A graduate of the University of Sussex in Brighton, England, Bruno worked for a number of years as a union soundman on feature film sets. During that time, he met noted Portuguese director Eduardo Guedes, and the two eventually teamed up on what became Heller’s first screenwriting credit, the 1994 film Pax starring Amanda Plummer.
Heller eventually left the UK for New York, where he met his wife, Miranda. In 1997, he moved to Los Angeles and began working on a variety of TV projects including Touching Evil and The Huntress. Heller went on to co-create as well as executive produce and write for the hugely successful HBO/BBC series Rome, followed by the long-running police procedural drama The Mentalist, which he created. Currently, Heller is serving as an executive producer/writer on another series he created, Gotham (premiering Monday, September 22nd @ 8:00 p.m. EST on FOX TV). This Batman prequel series introduces viewers to the origin stories of many familiar heroes, villains and villainesses occupying the DC Comics world, including Detective James Gordon and a young Bruce Wayne.
Heller graciously spent some time last week speaking on the phone with journalists about his involvement in Gotham and what audiences can look forward to seeing. The following is an edited version of that Q&A. Enjoy!
It looks like there was a very conscious effort to put so many characters in the pilot, and I think, in general, people have been pretty positive about that. I was just wondering what the thought process was on that and, in future episodes, will it be more of a “villain of the week” or what’s the plan for the future as well?
Bruno Heller: You make a good point. Obviously, the demands of opening big with the show means that we wanted to frontload it with lots of characters just to indicate where we’re headed. As the show rolls on, it won’t be villain of the week simply because these are such great villains and their storylines are so big and epic that it would be short-changing everyone if we did things in that sort of production line way. So there are a lot of big characters in that first episode, but as it rolls on, other iconic characters will be introduced, but in a much more measured way, if you like.
How would you describe the mood on the set or in the writers’ room right now in anticipation of the Gotham premiere?
BH: One of the key tasks of my job is not to let all of that off-set hoopla affect what is going on the set. The set is a world unto itself and we’re just trying to make the best show we can. The anticipation for the show and the brilliant job of marketing that FOX has done is really kind of another world. Inside the world we live in, certainly it’s hard, but while not ignoring all the anticipation, we try to let it go by without getting too excited.
The show is called Gotham; I’m wondering how much the city itself really shapes the story you’re telling.
BH: Very much so. It’s an urban story about city life, and I often think that it’s kind of a dream world that everybody shares. Everyone has a vision of Gotham in their mind, so you really have to create a three-dimensional world that is both believable but a notch above reality and has that fantastic element. The director [of the Gotham pilot, and fellow series executive producer], Dan Cannon, and I had kind of seminal moments in New York in the 70s when it was a really gnarly and dark, but very sexy, attractive and charismatic place. So the seed of Gotham City is that old New York.
Dan and his crew did such an amazing job creating a believable but fantastic world. It’s real as well as slightly surreal, and that means you have a broad and powerful canvas to work off of. So Gotham is a central character. It’s not an accident we call the show Gotham.
As a prequel series and an origin story, what did you look at and draw inspiration from, especially if people are used to seeing Bruce Wayne as the Dark Knight as opposed to his younger self, and where a lot of the focus is going to be on Jim Gordon and Gotham?
BH: To me, the immediate attraction of this story was precisely the chance to tell origin stories. Those are always the aspects of the superhero legends that I enjoy most. It ties into a kind of childlike curiosity of how did things get the way they are? It goes back to Rudyard Kipling’s How Did the Leopard Get its Spots? and Just So Stories.
This is a world that everyone knows. Everyone knows who Batman is, who the Riddler is, and who the Joker is, so telling their fully-fledged, adult stories is not so much been-there-done-that, but it’s tough to find a fresh way in. With Gotham, you get to learn how things got to be the way they are, and that, to me, is one of the great gifts of good narrative. It’s like seeing pictures of your parents before you were born. There’s something intrinsically fascinating about that period before the period we know, and that’s really the feeling we were going for with this show.
Shows like Arrow and Smallville have proven that mainstream superhero shows can be successful ventures. How have these shows had an impact on the production and development of Gotham? Would a show like Gotham even be possible, say, 10 or 15 years ago?
BH: That’s a good, deep question. Yes, I would say certainly both of the shows you mentioned are Warner Bros. shows, and the DC Universe is now very much a part of Warner Bros. culture. I’d been talking with DC for many years before we got to this point and landed on Gotham. I think you’re probably right, that it wouldn’t have been possible, and I think that’s a combination of the brilliance of what the Nolans did to revivify the Batman franchise and also the shows you mentioned. People could see that there’s both an audience and a way of convincingly doing that larger-than-life world on the small screen.
I would say that the difference, to a degree, between those shows and this show is that those were/are cable shows. This is network, and there are slightly different demands. The analogy would be those are arena shows whereas this has to be a stadium show and has to appeal to an even larger audience. So it has to appeal to both people who love Batman, love Gotham and love that world and then people who have no particular love for the world. With the latter, you just have to grab them on the strength of the story and the characters.
Warner Bros. and Netflix recently agreed to the exclusive streaming rights to Gotham. Is this direct to subscription television ineffable and how do you see this sort of thing effecting big, stadium projects like Gotham in the future?
BH; Well, I’m the last person to ask about business because what I can’t control, I don’t worry about or get too deep into. Certainly, though, all these new outlets and the various deals that can be made to back a project can only help in terms of creating larger and more ambitious TV events. That’s the way it’s going; in order to have to break through, you have to invest a lot more money as well as a lot more of your resources to make things pop out of the vast landscape that now exists for TV. The Netflix deal is part of that movement. It allows the creative people to take more chances and to use more “color” and a broader canvas so to speak, just to start with.
You’re doing some very interesting spins on some of the characters we know, especially the Penguin, who really stood out as unusually vicious, even for that character. When you were developing the show, how much did you decide to stick to the comics versus deciding just to go your own way with those characters?
BH: It’s a tricky balance, because obviously you don’t want to simply create a new character. You have to create a character that is that recognizable iconic character and they have to have their iconic characteristics. On the other hand, if we just deliver a character that the viewers have seen before, then we’re failing those viewers. Because the Batman world is so vast and full of so many great iterations of these characters, you can’t simply take those elements and regurgitate them. You have to give the audience a fresh look.
For me, with Penguin, it was important to be true to the psychology of that kind of person, and the sort of graphic novel version of the character, as opposed to a comic book version of the character. Also, this is Penguin as a young man, striving and struggling and hungry. He’s going to be a very different from the character he ultimately becomes and who has reached his goals in life. Right now, Penguin is that hungry, violent, scrabbling character that he must have been in order to get where he got to. All I can promise is we work very closely with Jeff Johns at DC to make sure we’re not betraying the essence of who these people are, because that would be pointless. We’re never going to sort of change up the characters simply for the shock value of changing them. It’s our job to deliver something new and interesting to viewers, and that involves taking chances now and again.
If a person is a fan of the mythology, they know who almost all of the characters are eventually going to become, so what has the process been like creating the path that leads each character to their eventual destiny?
BH: I guess the main challenge is reverse engineering enough that we have a journey to take without destroying all of the iconic elements of the characters that people know and love. At the same time, you want that journey to be as long and as interesting as possible, so we can’t start with the fully-fledged characters, even if we wanted to. There’s a whole bunch of history that has to happen before those characters emerge in all their finery.
For me, that’s a big part of the fun of the show, both making it and watching it, I hope, is seeing these people as young people and seeing how they’re going to change over time and giving them space to grow. It’s hard, though, to describe in simple terms how that works.
A lot of the challenge with TV as opposed to movies is that you have to leave enough room for the actors to tell their characters’ story. Sometimes you don’t know where a character is going to go and what’s going to happen to them until you’ve seen the actor take hold of that part and make it their own. Then, sort of like novelists say, the book starts to write itself, the characters start to tell their own story, and then we know where they’re going as opposed to mapping it out step by step. We have broad, general strokes, but, again, you have to leave space for these characters to live and breathe.
Do you have a favorite scene so far from Gotham that you can talk a bit about without spoilers?
BH: I very rarely watch the first few episodes of a series with glee. I tend to see the things I wish we’d done differently. However, in this case, I thought it was all gripping. To a degree, my favorite scene is the opening sequence. It played out pretty much as I’d seen it in my imagination, so that was a thrill.I also think the scene in the pilot with Penguin [Robin Lord Taylor] and Gordon [Ben McKenzie] on the waterfront has such cinematic juice that you can so rarely achieve on TV. If I had to pick an individual scene, that would be it. You have two great actors really bringing it and a director really catching it.
We know all these characters that you’re going to include, and a lot of people know about characters that we hope you include, but are there any characters in the stories or comic books that you knew from the beginning you would not include on the show and why? Are there any parts of the DC Universe where you definitely don’t want to go?
BH: There are certain characters that would be very, very difficult to put on the screen. That crocodile guy is a tough one, although we may go there. We haven’t excluded anyone from the mix, potentially, but generally what we’re looking at are characters where there is some drama or a story behind how they got to be the way they are. We’re looking for characters that can live in the real world of Gotham as opposed to the even more super-real world of Metropolis, if you like. It’s not about super powers, but rather super will. We’ve focused on those characters that are interesting as people as opposed to their particular power, particular gimmick or costume. That’s how I would divide that world. So the simple answer is, no. We’re ready to go with any of them.
Sean Pertwee’s take on the Alfred character is very different take from others we’ve seen. How much of Alfred’s and James Gordon’s conflicting father-type influences with Bruce Wayne will play a part in the first season.
BH: I wouldn’t say that Alfred is the bad father, but he’s certainly the permissive, enabling father as opposed to Gordon, who represents the law. What Sean brings to the part is a kind of avuncular strength, but also a sense of irony and a strength and power.
To take it a step back, in order for Bruce (David Mazouz) to turn into Batman, Alfred had to be an enabler. Bruce could not have done this in secret; at some point they made a pact, whether spoken or unspoken, that this was going to be allowed. So you had to have an actor with an edge of danger to him, and who would not simply play the good, loyal caretaker, but also someone with his own sense of rage inside him. Whoever we chose had to be able to carry the latter, but lightly, and that’s what Sean does so brilliantly. That, to me, is who Alfred is, and is what Michael Caine used to play [in the Batman feature films]. I’m not sure that it is such a leap from the previous characterizations. It’s a leap from the very old style of Alfred where he’s kind of much more the English butler than the soldier.
We went for a dynamic character who can carry his own stories and who is a genuine, positive, dynamic influence in Bruce’s life. That required an actor with great charisma and strength and also, underneath, you have to feel that he loves and cares for this kid. So it’s a very tricky line Sean is walking, and he’s walking it brilliantly.